Theory time. The Yillish people came up with their customs to help namers or protect themselves from them. instead of groups of words. it’s groups of thread woven together. that means that a full braid of story has many knots where as others would have a few.

rhetoricandlogic:

adurna0:

kvothbloodless:

rhetoricandlogic:

timelorddarthswagger:

rhetoricandlogic:

timelorddarthswagger:

In the books they mentioned that the Yill believed that owning a thing changed a person. Felurian ran around bare and so she bared herself to all. I think in the same way runes have power knots have power. Imagine a namer is after you. while you’re running or hiding you put on or take off a piece of clothing to change something about yourself. think of how different kvothe was after he got a pair of shoes. think of how the shoe maker treated him when he came in with no shoes at all. he knew what kind of person kovthe was without the shoe’s. like that old phrase “look good feel good” like denna with her ring and without it. now think of the namer training Elodin had kvothe go thru. the blind fold, the mud in his shoe, the changing of kvothes eyes could signify a big change in him on some fundamental level. denna pointed out the color of his eyes when he was afraid. and wilem pointed them out when he was upset with devi. when kvothe was in ademre he became a part of ademre so when he entered spinning leaf it changed something about him. sorry I ramble

Now I understand! There’s certainly something to this “changing a person by applying something story-knottish” to them. I think, that sounds a little like my “manipulating” the person “feeling” the knots, but your theory has a vaster practical appliance.

And yes, you’re right on that level it could be done. Denna is only taking the first small steps in such a direction when braiding “lovely” into her hair. Maybe she never found an answer to the question: could you do magic by writing things down, but instead found “I can do magic by braiding”. 

However, we don’t have any evidence that Yllish knots are actually that powerful. Maybe on the Lackless Box, but that’s still undisclosed.

Question to all: do we have textual evidence of something Yllish, like knotted clothing? Or just story-knots? I can’t remember.

wasn’t there a woman in the maer’s court who had story knots on her dress? also there is some irony in story knots as well. after kvothe is beaten during the winter. he dreams of ben showing him sailor knots. but if they were story knots….and towards the end of book two before kvothe tells Denna to breath or after he finds a book on story knots but the person who owned the book store thought they were sailor knots. and we know the length of the knots and thread have meaning as well. since in the archives kvothe found that room with huge spindils spundels? of story knots. I also suspect that the adem might use story knots. the story of rath and his student and the ribbion with the poem. what if the ribbion had the words braided into it? and kvothe mentioned that the adem had no written language.

TMI. I can’t process all this at once. Give me a chance to try and find -and re-read, of course-  all the events you list here to see where you are going with this.

Alright. You are, again, spot on. You have such a fine memory for details, I feel like mine is one singular black hole compared to yours.

Evidently, Yllish scrollwork actually can effect the physical world up to and including making things invisible:

rhetoricandlogic:

I’m not entirely sure, I follow. Why would the Yllish need to protect themselves from namers? What about shapers?

And how would a story knot be used to help namers on the other hand?

Could you please elaborate?

I think, the Yllish used their knots to manipulate people. Denna shows this with the “lovely” knot in her braid and I can certailnly believe, the story-knots would do something to the person “feeling” the story. But that’s as far as I’m capable of thinking.

Your turn 🙂

Each entry had a picture accompanied by a short, insipid poem. Of course, the Chandrian were the only entry without a picture. Instead there was just an empty page framed in decorative scrollwork. The accompanying poem was less than useless. (WMF p. 128)

…

“I was looking at some of Gibea’s diagrams. Look what I found.” I held out a book for him to see. …. …. “What’s here to see?” Simmon asked, looking down at the page. “It’s just his name and the dates.” “Not the middle, look up at the top. Around the edges of the page.” I pointed at the decorative scrollwork. “Right there.”…. …. “I still don’t see anything,” Simmon said softly, making a baffled gesture with both his elbows on the table. “It’s pretty enough if you like that sort of thing, but I’ve never been a great fan of illuminated texts.” …. …. “Here, I’m looking at your damn book. Show me what you want me to see.” “Gibea sketched all his own journals,” I said. “This is his original, so it makes sense that he did his own scrollwork too, right?” Sim nodded and brushed his hair back from his eyes. “What do you see there?” I slowly pointed from one piece of scrollwork to another. “Do you see it?” Sim shook his head. I pointed again, more precisely. “There,” I said, “and there in the corner.” His eyes widened. “Letters! ‘ I’ …‘ v’ …” He paused to puzzle them out. “* Ivare enim euge *. WMF p. 302/303

…

She took her hand away. “Are you sure it’s a carving?” “It’s too regular to be an accident. How can it be you haven’t noticed it before? Isn’t it mentioned in any of your histories?” Meluan was taken aback. “No one would think of writing down anything regarding the Loeclos box. Haven’t I said this is the most secret of secrets?” “Show me,” Alveron said. I guided his fingers over the pattern. He frowned. “Nothing. My fingers must be too old. Could it be letters?” I shook my head. “It’s a flowing pattern, like scrollwork. But it doesn’t repeat, it changes …” A thought struck me. “It might be a Yllish story knot.”-WMF p.922

Also, there’s this bit which escaped me previously. Seriously, Yllish knots on Denna’s ring?

HOLY FUCKING SHIT. YLLISH NOTS HAVE BEEN PROTECTING THE CHANDRIAN. I CANT PROCESS ALL THIS

Can someone explain this theory to me in very simple terms because I feel very stupid right now for not understanding what this says?

Hi there, @adurna0

I saw your question and thought, I can at least try?

Yllish knots change the perception of the viewer. Like the knot in Denna’s braid, that at one time says “lovely” and at another “don’t even talk to me” influences the people who see the knot to perceive/do exactly as the braid demands. Also, Denna spend some months in Yll, remeber? She writes letters to Kvothe from there.

On the Lackless box, the story-knots keep the secret in and the box closed – if we assume, the carving on the box is actual Yllish.

Now, on the book in which Kvothe looks for information on the Chandrian, there’s scrollwork on an (perceived) empty page which otherwise only contains an inane poem. We assume, the scrollwork “hides” the picture on the page. If the picture is the key to understanding the poem … it stands to reason that the Yllish scrollwork was used to protect information of the Chandrian; maybe the Chandrian themselves.

EDIT: tinfoil-hat time:

If Denna is an aspect/personification of the Moon and Kvothe of Iax, could the Amyr be an aspect of the Chandrian? The blood-tatooed hands (or was that the Ciridae?), the Nina’s painting of the vase and saying “The Amyr was the worst”, their secrecy: the same as the Chandrian; Felurian stating that there never were human Amyr. All the aspects bordered with Yllish knots. And every 7 years …

o.k. I’ll show myself out 🙂